Ship Design

edited January 2012 in Ashen Stars
Allo all - bit of advice or possibly just someone less stoopid that I to help with a tiny ship design question.

We're just about to start playing Ashen Stars, and I've got a gleam of an idea to put forward to the player group. As part of this I felt a one off ship design would be an awesome part of our story (ie. I'm trying to get everything ready to 'pitch' my idea to them).

But one thing I noticed in the ship design notes relates to Cargo space.

I'm ok with the +/- mods on cargo vs making a roll for a freight side quest; but there's a small note saying that:
"If your ship has no cargo bays, your crew misses out on freight haulage side deals"

The speeder's description lists 'no cargo bays'.

But what I can't see is if this is an option for custom ships, and if so, what would the bonus/advantage be in doing so? I don't think it's the same thing as having a cargo 0 (as if it was, there's no point in a negative score).

Thanks for opinions folk!

Comments

  • You start with a 0 in cargo (a normal cargo bay) if you have the standard template. You can't go lower than 0 on cargo.

    Speeders specifically have no cargo capacity, and it's implied you couldn't add any.

    However, you can customize an existing ship. So, you could earn points by reducing the cargo capacity of an existing ship - that's what the negative points are for. So you could kit out a Hauler with extra weapon systems and degrade the cargo capacity, for example.
  • Ahh. I see what you're saying Simon, but...

    I don't mean this in a negative way at all (HONEST, I love Ashen Stars almost exactly as it is :)) but it's a little contradictory to the actual ship building example in the Custom Ships section.

    Unless I'm reading it wrong (possible/likely) the example is a 'from scratch ship'. In the example the player reduces the cargo to -1 to get some build points pack.

    Which then kinda links into the later 'Side Deals' section, which - when discussing freight deals - says:

    "When haggling for a freight contract, subtract your ship’s Cargo spec from the Difficulty of your Business Affairs test. Negative Cargo specs increase the Difficulty."

    Which all makes sense to me :) I just felt that there could/should be a bonus for saying we have no cargo bay. Perhaps there could be a set of original chassis for ship building, of which speeders could then be one?!

    This could be a house rule too, I guess, just seems a shame to have this slight omission to the ship rules.
  • Posted By: serraphinAhh. I see what you're saying Simon, but...

    I don't mean this in a negative way at all (HONEST, I love Ashen Stars almost exactly as it is :)) but it's a little contradictory to the actual ship building example in the Custom Ships section.

    Unless I'm reading it wrong (possible/likely) the example is a 'from scratch ship'. In the example the player reduces the cargo to -1 to get some build points pack.

    Which then kinda links into the later 'Side Deals' section, which - when discussing freight deals - says:

    "When haggling for a freight contract, subtract your ship’s Cargo spec from the Difficulty of your Business Affairs test.Negative Cargo specs increase the Difficulty."

    Which all makes sense to me :) I just felt that there could/should be a bonus for saying we have no cargo bay. Perhaps there could be a set of original chassis for ship building, of which speeders could then be one?!

    This could be a house rule too, I guess, just seems a shame to have this slight omission to the ship rules.
    Yes, it appears I'm wrong. I didn't see that section. I'll ask Robin.
  • In order to gain its speed efficiencies, the designers of the Speeder had to lose its cargo bay.

    This does not mean that dropping a cargo bay on a scratch-built chassis automatically grants you additional efficiencies. Remember that the standard designs have been perfected over time and are usually more efficient in one way or another than a scratch-built ship. Scratch-builds lose efficiency to gain flexibility.

    If you want a modified speeder, start play with a speeder and modify it in play.
  • edited January 2012
    Hi Robin,

    thanks for taking the time out to try and answer - I really appreciate it.

    What you've said, specifically about the standard designs being tried, tested and improved, makes perfect sense - which is why I'd expect the cost to 'build' a speeder equivalent would be higher/impossible to match. And this is where it seems to fall down for me.

    I can build a speeder analogue (stats wise) exactly as is, but with a cargo bay (stat of 0).

    I'd expect, as the 'trade off' for being a speeder and not having a cargo bay the maneuver to be higher in either or both dishing it and taking it (thus making it impossible to create the speeder, using the from scratch rules).

    I'm not desperate for the 'rule' on what to give us back if we remove the cargo bay (tho it'd be nice :P), and if the Speeder just had some higher stat somewhere I'd make humming and hawing noises. As it stands - and if I'm not being thick (again, feasible) - it just doesn't quite work.

    I know Ashen Stars isn't a munchkin kind of a game, but this one quirk on ships - which do form the biggest stat part of the game, is a busting my melon...
  • I mistook you as arguing the opposite point. Apologies for the confusion.

    We'll have to errata this somehow. Still not clear on your preferred solution.
  • No need for apologies Robin; in my attempts not to look like a player that's just moaning I often over egg my explanations, and ironically look like one of those players.

    For a solution I'd personally feel that altering the stats of the speeder would work (i.e. give it perhaps a maneouver dishing it of +3, which a one off ship cannot attain to start with).

    And perhaps there could then be an option for loosing the cargo bay and gaining some build points? Of course that could be an optional rule in the forthcoming ships book...

    Thanks again for replying.
  • Is this resolved somehow?  The ship building system has a Cargo rating, which seems to be a straight modifier on your Cargo roll and can go negative, but in the rules there's also a bit about your number of Cargo Bays not mentioned in the build system which impact your Cargo rolls with different modifies (and can make Cargo prohibited.) 


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