Help with Icon Points

First of all, sorry about my English, is not my born language but i hope everyone could understand me.

I've been playing, as GM, 13th age for 9 months, with 5 players, but i think we're doing wrong the icon rolls/points issue.
At the start, i used to make my players roll after the sessión, and i prepared the next session about theyr results.

But i realiced it was not the point. I talk to my players and i said that they should used the points too, like a Deus Ex Machina that brings some information about theyr Pjs.

But my players are incapable of do that kind of imagination act, or something. They're not a boring group at all, but the mos they can do is used the points to apply little bonus on combat, and they don't do anything in the narrative way.

Someone could tell me some points to make my players easy this use of the icon points?

Thanks, and another time sorry about my english

Comments

  • edited July 2016
    Hi Pedachenko,
    In our group I'm a player, but our DM makes us roll for icon relationship at the start of every session. On a 6 the relationship will come into play to give us an advantage, and on a 5 we will gain an advantage but with come complications. I believe all other rolls are ignored.
    With the results of these rolls it is down to the DM on how each 5 or 6 will affect the story.
    I hope that helps,
    LD
  • There's some useful advice in the book that comes with the GM screen about this
  • There's some useful advice in the book that comes with the GM screen about this

    Thanks. Unfortunately i live in

    Spain and the GM screen is still not available here. I may look for buy it online if its possible

    Hi Pedachenko,
    In our group I'm a player, but our DM makes us roll for icon relationship at the start of every session. On a 6 the relationship will come into play to give us an advantage, and on a 5 we will gain an advantage but with come complications. I believe all other rolls are ignored.
    With the results of these rolls it is down to the DM on how each 5 or 6 will affect the story.
    I hope that helps,
    LD

    I know is just with 5 or 6. What you said is that de players doesn't use the 5 or 6 with the icons, just the GM has to do the work? I mean, that is more comfortable but the book said that players should use the icon points too, because that create a feedback in the creation of the story.

    Thanks both of you!
  • We also play that a 1 creates a complication or problem with no upside, and my players delight in making their own lives worse!
  • Hummmm... i see your point xD
  • I do icon rolls the way you do - at the end and use it to prepare the next session. A '5' means some obstacle that player has to overcome in the next session (to gain a reward) and a '6' means they gain some kind of reward just because they're so awesome (as long as they roleplay it correctly).

    Ex: Player rolls a '6' with the Elf Queen. A some point in the next session some little sprite appears and gives them a 'reward' - like a magic item or something as thanks from the Elf Queen. A '5' might be the same magic item that has a temporary drawback (like it makes the player fall in love with the first person they see for a day). That's something the Elf Queen would do. Other icons would work differently. It can be really hard trying to customize icon rolls for that particular icon.

    You could also have the icon roll advance the player's unique thing. Example: "I am the lizard king". Ok, so give the player a magical lizard scale to begin their transformation. Is is weird? Yes, but the player wanted to be the lizard king so she's probably insane anyway ;)
  • As a GM, I have the same problem with my players. I used to roll at the end of sessions, but I got tired of the extra work this made for me. Now I have them roll at the start of sessions.

    I'm close to finding a solution to make them participate in stories more. The first step is to use tokens/symbols/coins for any 5 and 6 that they roll. This acts as a visual reminder for the Icon Roll waiting to be used.

    The other useful mechanic is to play on the person's morality or hubris (depending on the player). My players have used their rolls to prevent a merchant/traveler/innocent from death/capture. Or to prevent their vehicle/ship/wagon from breaking down by applying a magical repair. If I don't put them in a tight spot with the story, then my players unfortunately just stick to using the Icon Roll for combat.
  • Thanks Juris amd JeanH13, the're awesome ideas, I'll try all of them
  • Sly flourish came up with some decent rules for this. It's the system I use, except that I made a couple of adjustments and make sure to ask players how the benefits link to the icon. http://slyflourish.com/icon_rolls.html
  • Tell your players that 5 or 6 is a way for them to change the story in some way. Like a fork in the path. Perhaps they are heading for the right fork, but one of them uses the left fork through an advantage. Now, it might be that the left fork returns to the main path after a short loop, or it may be that it goes in another direction completely from where you thought the story would go. One way to help the players understand how versatile an advantage can be is that as GM you could see a place where it makes sense, and tell the PC that their 6 with the [icon] would let them do [something] here that's good for the group. When they see what's possible, and that you as GM are cool with them actually changing the story in ways, they might try more. For example, a small combat advantage could be something like the group is facing an orc shaman and her warriors. A PC with a 6 with with the Orc Lord suddenly chimes in, saying, "I'm going to use my 6 here. See, one of those orc warriors, he actually learned a prophecy about how he would die horribly and without honor against a warrior who looks like {one of the PCs]. He yells in dismay and flees the battle. So the enemies are down one bad guy. If it was a 5, maybe the orc warrior has a second part to the prophecy and begins to follow that PC, saying that a glorious death awaits if he can keep up with them. Another example, a PC has two 6s with the Emperor. While in a city, a local noble's thugs intercept the PCs to attack them for speaking badly of their master. It's going to be a fight, but one that's maybe just a filler battle. The PC's player think this fight will take up time without advancing the story much so she uses both 6s to get a stronger advantage. She says that she actually knows a little about this noble, and which imperial nobles he's in debt to, so she drops some names and brings the thugs to halt. She arranges for the noble's debt to go away, and the fight is avoided, and maybe she even gains a resource in the town as the local noble is impressed. Show your players the path and then reward them for creativity.
  • Ufoosio said:

    Tell your players that 5 or 6 is a way for them to change the story in some way. Like a fork in the path. Perhaps they are heading for the right fork, but one of them uses the left fork through an advantage. Now, it might be that the left fork returns to the main path after a short loop, or it may be that it goes in another direction completely from where you thought the story would go. One way to help the players understand how versatile an advantage can be is that as GM you could see a place where it makes sense, and tell the PC that their 6 with the [icon] would let them do [something] here that's good for the group. When they see what's possible, and that you as GM are cool with them actually changing the story in ways, they might try more. For example, a small combat advantage could be something like the group is facing an orc shaman and her warriors. A PC with a 6 with with the Orc Lord suddenly chimes in, saying, "I'm going to use my 6 here. See, one of those orc warriors, he actually learned a prophecy about how he would die horribly and without honor against a warrior who looks like {one of the PCs]. He yells in dismay and flees the battle. So the enemies are down one bad guy. If it was a 5, maybe the orc warrior has a second part to the prophecy and begins to follow that PC, saying that a glorious death awaits if he can keep up with them. Another example, a PC has two 6s with the Emperor. While in a city, a local noble's thugs intercept the PCs to attack them for speaking badly of their master. It's going to be a fight, but one that's maybe just a filler battle. The PC's player think this fight will take up time without advancing the story much so she uses both 6s to get a stronger advantage. She says that she actually knows a little about this noble, and which imperial nobles he's in debt to, so she drops some names and brings the thugs to halt. She arranges for the noble's debt to go away, and the fight is avoided, and maybe she even gains a resource in the town as the local noble is impressed. Show your players the path and then reward them for creativity.

    There are awesome ideas. Thank you!

  • After the roll I give out tokens; red for 5 and black for 6. Having the tokens reminds the players in game they can use them. Often, they will use them after a failed roll, when a DC is high, for a ritual, or when they are stuck somehow. It's fine to use them in combat - often story elements appear under those circumstances which you can use. For example, a dwarf character who got stuck in some web said "I use my 5 Dwarf King icon token to get out of this." "How?" "A representative of the Dwarf King's underdark patrol taught us as youths what to do. You know how spiders don't get stuck in their own web? When I stabbed that drider, I grabbed the spider gland which will dissolve it ." "But you'll attract spiders until you next bathe."

    Now you have a ninja dungeon dwarf for them to meet, too.
  • I've created a set of small cards for our group which I hand out as a reminder for the roll results. I agree that having something tactile on the table really helps with the players remembering to use their icon rolls.
    IconCards.jpg 205.3K
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