Paladin & Barbarian

edited August 2013 in Announcements
Just watched a nearly 4 hour Google hangout 13th Age game - was fun

At the end there was a discussion about how the paladin and barbarian might be just a little underpowered compared to other classes

Is this the case, if so, have you houseruled?


  • Barbarians are definitely not underpowered. Paladins do little damage out of the box, but they have great survivability. And depending on what powers the player picks, they can do decent damage, too.
  • Especially at higher levels, their smite becomes a force to be reckoned with

    I too didn't see an issue with the barbarian powers/talents
  • Barbarian in my group is quite good. Hits hard. Angry. etc. He also has the most HP in the party and generally is the most survivable.
  • I have a paladin in my group and I am sure the warrior that goes with the same group is going to leave him a little sore thanks to the flexible attacks that let you do extra attacks. So, I've been thinking , since he has Cleric training, that when he gets to 5th level I will let him combine Smite Evil with Hammer of the Faith making normal damage yes or yes (only missing on 1). It's not like Smite is a skill you can use at-will so, for a few hits it will be a powerfull bonus at the expense of 1 turn and 2 skill uses. What do you think ? To strong? No need?
  • In a previous thread another member said they have the barbarian with a base hit point of 9+ and they increased the PD by 1. Since they are frontline battle machines and tend to take a lot of damage.

    Personally I think the paladin being simple makes it "feel" weaker. Others before me have already stated it not very front loaded but really picks up in later levels.
  • One of the thinks I like of 13th Age, over others like Pathfinder,3rd edition is that while you can personalize your char, there are not thousands of options. Many may think that the bigger the number the better, but in the end it tends to focus the game in building better chars, different chars and using those skills, making the roleplaying part and the story of the game something secondary (or worse). Combat gets plagued with rules, players get overstressed with doing the best actions possible , acting in each battle like in a boardgame and making every combat slow , painful and unnatural.
    I don't dislike the paladin as it is, or the barbarian but, unlike the barbarian , who has a Cleave and the Whirlwind, the Paladin is confined to only one attack per turn. As someone pointed in the forums, Smite Enemy benefits the Paladin on failure. Yes , flavorlike, I like it, he is a fighter so focused on banishing his nemesis(evil or good) that even their failures aren't such. The problem arises from the fact that it is a skill that benefits more not on the Paladin success but on his failures. From the point of view not of a GM but of a player, the fighter has more than one attack, does more or less the same damage and has a flexibility on his options. The paladin has other strong points only ones not so flashy. I want to make combat something on pair with history and roleplaying, but some of my players are too...used to big damages, multiple attacks and lots of combats and enemys. I think they need a little combat detox. I want them to be less obssesed with numbers and success and more on having fun and I fear they will analize each class and aim for the best or the flashier. That is why I did search for an option to add something heavier to the paladin something I could give to one of the players I know doesn't care about maximizing.
    That is when I did notice that Hammer of the Faith has a lvl 5 benefit that is the same for the Paladin than using his Smite and I though, well, if the spell gives him half DMG and smite gives him half, maybe I could allow for that combination to do full. I don't think it is so overpowered. Problem is I don't like the idea of giving my player permission to use it and having to forbidd it later when I find I was wrong. And what I like even less, is the idea that if my players end liking the 13th Age system over the other ones and we play a lot of it, they will copy that build for every paladin they make over the fear of using something they'll wrongly percieve weak.
  • You may want to consider moving this thread to the 13th Age category, for better visibility.
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